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Link: Whimsley: If That's All Right With You - A Modest Manifesto. The names of Vasili Arkhipov and Stanislav Petrov do not appear in most lists of 20th century heroes, but they should. After all, who else could claim to [Read More]

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Seth Finkelstein

Well, it's an interesting sermon, but it *is* a sermon.

One thing which leapt out at me:

"by sealing themselves off to make sure the disease did not spread to the surrounding areas ..."

This sounds to me like making a virtue from necessity. That is, if you're in a plague-filled village in medieval times, you're going to have a hard time getting anywhere, because anyone in the surrounding countryside is likely to kill you on sight, BECAUSE YOU MIGHT HAVE THE PLAGUE!

Just think of the news reaction caused recently by the guy who had drug-resistant TB - and he wasn't even much infectious. Take it up a few orders of magnitude.

Thus given the alternative of being sick and on the road and hunted, and being sick and at home and not hunted, it's not too hard to pick the latter choice. Though I can't believe *nobody* tried to make a break for it .

Sorry to rain on the nice sentiments, but the fiction there seemed a bit over-the-top.

derek

Seth, what you're predicting didn't actually happen. I think you're importing American post-apocalypse fantasies into the actual historical reality.

(So it's ironic that you're calling history fiction and fiction history)

Seth Finkelstein

Actually, if anything, I'm guilty of importing the modern understanding of contagion. The plague was certainly apocalyptic for the era.

http://www.historic-uk.com/HistoryUK/England-History/GreatPlague.htm

"Whole communities were wiped out and corpses littered the streets as there was no one left to bury them."

"Incubation took a mere four to six days and when the plague appeared in a household, the house was sealed, thus condemning the whole family to death! These houses were distinguished by a painted red cross on the door and the words, 'Lord have mercy on us'"

"Samuel Pepys in his Diary gives a vivid account of the empty streets in London, as all who could had left in an attempt to flee the pestilence."

C'mon, if someone did run away from Eyam, what were the villagers going to do? They sure weren't going to send out a search party. How would they even know the difference between someone ill who crawled off to a field to die, and someone still healthy who decided every-man-for-himself? They'd probably just record anyone who left as "assumed dead (coprse location not known)".

Everyone sticking together to likely die in noble self-sacrifice is "glurge". It doesn't stand up to critical thought.

tom s.

Seth. On it being a sermon - it's a fair cop. Good point.
On Eyam. First you suggest no one fled because they would have been killed on sight, and then you say that people must have fled because no one could stop them. Are you going to choose a horse and stick to it or switch around?

It is well known that (i) there is a village called Eyam :-), (ii) a lot of people died there in 1665 to 1666 from the plague, and (iii) from soon after the events, there are written and oral stories of self-imposed quarantine at the suggestion of two local clergy (William Mompesson and Thomas Stanley).

Did no one flee? Who knows - although it does seem that nearby villages were spared the brunt of the plague. There is a spectrum of stories of course, from complete solidarity and almost 100% mortality to something more modest. I've no way of knowing where on the spectrum the truth lies and I'm sure that some versions are romanticised. But that's no reason to throw out the baby with the bathwater, and I don't see any reason to doubt that it was an episode of heroic self-sacrifice by a large number of villagers.

BTW I enjoy your comments at various sites on web 2.0 and agree with you on most of them.

Dipper

there's something unsatisfactory about this. A false modesty. According to this the most heroic people are ones of who's existence we've never known. In which case how do we follow their example?

Can you be a hero on your own? Isn't part of being heroic the public expression of a particular virtue, in which case being an unknown hero, even a modest one, is an oxymoron.

David

Nice one, Tom.
Your modesty aside, I'll procure a horse any time you are deemed parade worthy

John

Several interesting arguments, but I am not convinced that all of the various traits that you celebrate here (introversion, modesty, skepticism) usually go together. For example, I would call myself an "immodest," skeptical, introvert. I think that many of writers share this combination of traits.

I guess I have the biggest problem with linking together skepticism and modesty. Isn't skepticism (the desire to think things through for yourself without going along with the prevailing wisdom of the crowd) inherently self-confident and immodest?

Stanislav Petrov is a hero of skepticism, but was his heroic act -- in which he trusted his own judgment instead of following the orders of his superiors and the expectations of his peers -- modest?

KY Choong

Nice "sermon". The Kite Runner tells a fine story about a "servant-hero".

I am told by a historian that there is a prison wall in Rome with a drawing of a man with a donkey's head hung on a cross, and an inscription saying something like "Alex worships his god". The historian tells me the drawing must have been made by a Roman soldier, mocking a Christian prisoner. Apparently the Romans found it difficult to understand how early Christians could worship a crucified man.

It's interesting how, against a Roman/Greek culture that celebrated the strong and powerful, a man who taught his disciples to "love your enemies", and who had come to serve, and not to be served, could inspire a movement that spread across the Roman empire.

Seth Finkelstein

Thanks Tom, let me return the compliment and say I enjoy your writings overall.

I actually do mean both "horses". Note I didn't suggest *no one* fled. Rather, it's a decent, but not exactly heroic, argument, to say: "*If* you flee, you're going to be alone, hard traveling through very hostile territory, with no help if you do get sick. If you stay, you'll have whatever medical care and supplies are around.". In that situation, I think *many* people could be persuaded to stay, by what's in fact an appeal to self-interest, not self-sacrifice. Moreover, given that historically there were quarantines imposed, it's reasonable to wonder (can't prove it, but think about it), if there was some sort of carrot-and-stick from the regional authorities that agreeing to quarantine meant getting supplies from outside, but fleeing meant being treated, well, like you had the plague.
[Note fleeing a small village is different from fleeing London - lots of people are going to and from a city every day, but anybody on the road in the boondocks will be significant]

That said, human nature being what it is, it's highly likely there were dissenters who decided they'd rather take their chances and get out of town. And neither they nor the village authorities had an incentive to talk about it.

The quarantine was undoubtedly a good idea. I'm disputing that it was a case of people deciding en masse to sacrifice themselves for others. It seems to strain credibility, and made me wonder how much of any other cited virtue was true.

Phil

OK, here's what the Eyam Museum says (no link, Typepad would only eat it):

"William Mompesson was the newly appointed rector of Eyam and, with his predecessor, Thomas Stanley, he persuaded the villagers to enter voluntary quarantine, bury their own dead and even worship outdoors to limit the spread of the disease.

"People in the surrounding area sent provisions to the people of Eyam which were left on the village boundary.

"The death toll was terrible - between September 1665 and October 1666, no fewer than 76 families were stricken and 260 people - perhaps a third of the population - met an awful, pained death.

"Some families were wiped out. Others left just a single survivor - like the Hancock family at Riley Farm, where Elizabeth Hancock buried her husband and six children in just eight days.

"The sufferings of the families - the Coopers, the Hadfields, the Syddals, the Thorpes, the Blackwells, the Talbots, the Mortens, the Kempes, the Merrills, are recorded on their houses around the village.

"When the Plague finally loosed its terrible grip on the village it left a population of more than 400 people who once again needed to make their living."

That's a fair amount of evidence, which tends to point the same way as the mythical version (although the death toll wasn't 100%, just a mere 33%).

It's possible that if you dug around in local records you could qualify it along the lines Seth suggests - "The Smiths, on the other hand, made a run for it as soon as they heard the news. Selfish bastards, we never talk about them." But I don't think it's warranted to assume that things weren't like that, particularly on the basis of no evidence but 21st-century assumptions about 'human nature'.

tom s.

Thank you Phil.

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