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kevin quinn

Great review, Tom. Thanks: I am going to get the papers. As far as your disclaimer, l think you forgot more economics than most of my co-economists ever knew, as the phrase goes. Can we look forward to a 2nd edition of NMSW with a new chapter: "Rachel and George visit Whimsley?

Cosma Shalizi

Rather to my surprise, I find myself more sympathetic to the "question [of] whether identity is, or is not, observable" than you seem to be. I take it to be about whether or not there are ways of determining what the available identities are, and who holds which, that are logically independent of the behaviors that they are supposed to explain. If not, it would seem to be only too easy to make identity (or norms or culture...) into a sort of dormitive property. One might well feel that people who make this critique yet believe in explaining all behavior by maximizing "utility" are not so much living in a glass house and throwing stones as breaking one of their own walls so as to throw the shards at their neighbors, but still it's not without force. This doesn't really apply to the examples you cite from Akerlof and Kranton, of course. (I've read neither the book nor the papers, just lived through many iterations of this argument when it's been about norms and culture.)

tomslee

Thanks Kevin. The final chapter of NMSW, the 1st and only edition, does address the Identity Economics papers. But "Rachel and George visit Whimsley" would have been a better title.

tomslee

I looked up "dormitive property" and found it linked to arguments like "people tip because of the utility they derive from tipping". So yes, I can see that identity could be used to justify arguments like "people tip at restaurants because they have adopted the identity of a class of person for whom tipping is the right thing to do." It's certainly not without its dangers.

They key, then, is whether identities and their prescriptions can be observed outside the context of the game. I think this is one reason why making it an exogenous property in the models is a good move.

My brother pointed out that I under-reviewed the book, and he's right: I didn't actually go through a lot of what the book says. But a big part of the work that they did was to scour sociological, literary, psychology and other sources to define the categories they identified and the prescriptions associated with each (not so difficult in the case of gender and race; more difficult in the cases of workplace and schools). It's that secondary research that made the papers and, to a lesser extent, the book impressive to me. Kranton and Akerlof accepted that, properly done, identity is not a concept to be used as seems convenient, but one to which many sociologists have contributed by endless observing and interviewing. I would agree that there is an obligation to read that observational material - to establish the fact of identities and their prescriptions independently of the economic argument - before invoking identity in an economics kind of way.

TGGP

"If you have sat in a car at a red light at an obviously-empty intersection, waiting for it to change rather than go through against the light, well that’s an identity-based decision, following the norms of the community you live in."
I think norms = identity is an overstatement. Imagine that a norm is so ubiquitous and entrenched that it doesn't even occur to anyone that there might be another "kind of person". Do we still claim decisions according to that norm are based on "identity"?

tomslee

Not entirely sure what you mean. An example might help. Norms, in this view, are the prescriptions associated with an identity. One could feel constrained to follow norms even if one does not have ideas about alternative identities.

the_iron_troll

This was extremely good. I don't know if I can wait for the paperback.

wrldtree

Very nice, thoughtful review. Thanks.

Luis Enrique

just out of idle interest, do they mention Roland Fryer whose written lots on "acting white"? if not, and you don't already know him, you might be interested in his stuff.

Luis Enrique

I should also add - great review, much appreciated. Like Cosma, I think concerns about observability are more about wondering how the theory can be tested, and less about disrespecting soft science.

Ben Ho

Being an economist who studies identity and who read a lot of sociology in grad school, I am very interested in Akerlof and Kranton's work and your response.

However, there is a flaw in both your response to economists and sociologists which highlights why many economists have found their work to be very interesting but somewhat unsatisfactory, more an excellent first step rather than a complete theory.

(Though I must admit that while I have read most of their academic articles on the subject, I have not read this book yet.)

As AK acknowledge, economsts are skeptical about the exogeneity of identity. While their mathematical models tend to assume it is exogenous for tractability sake we know that not only are identities changeable (a rural/black/southern/woman is sometimes black, sometimes a woman, sometimes rural, sometimes southern, sometimes a combination of those 4). Thus their analytical model does not give us any guidance to perhaps the most important feature of identity (though I do acknowledge they do talk about these issues more informally).

Similarly, when you say the main contribution for sociologists is to aprpeciate equilibrium and how identities and norms form. We agree. (My co-authors and I have for years been working for years on such a theory.) Akerlof and Kranton's highlight the importance of these questions but have not pushed as far analytically on the important questions of identity and norm formation.

tomslee

Time will tell about the observability concern, I guess.

They mention Fryer briefly (in a footnote to Chapter 7), and he references them in An Empirical Analysis of 'Acting White' (PDF). I didn't of him, so thanks.

tomslee

If you've read the articles I don't think there is a lot to be gained from the book. By marking identity as exogenous A&K definitely leave a lot of questions open but this seems like a good thing to me. The big identities (race, gender, class) are formed over centuries and over continents, and to ask that they be explained in a theory of current society sounds very ambitious, to say the least. And it's not clear to me that economics is the tool to use to explain it. Every field of study has to take some results from other fields for granted, and maybe this is something economists just have to take from the other social sciences.

I have more sympathy when it comes to the smaller identities - their studies of workplace and school, for example, where identities are formed and transmute quickly and on a local scale. Like a lot of big words "identity" covers many distinct phenomena - maybe too many.

Thanks for the comment, and I'll definitely look with interest at your papers.

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